Unless Pence really needs a pardon himself, and they get some goon to hold Trump’s pardon of Pence in a rustic escrow until he has Pence’s pardon of Trump in hand, Trump can’t rely on Pence’s promise to pardon him. Trump’s dangerous base is starting to move on from him, trying to be an autonomous dark force. They are beginning to admit that FF was a useful idiot all along and labeling him with the lovely word Cuck. (These guys really think that controlling their women, protecting their property, is one of their highest callings. Killing another. The two together, priceless.) So it’s not clear that Pence supposedly reneging would increase right wing death threats agains him. It is what is already is, and Pence cowers from that. Yep, Pence, King for a Day and despising FF, might well pull away Linus’ football, even after getting a DT pardon himself.
The real moral problem with Pence and Moscow Mitch backing off removal of FF so far, is that FF remotely might pardon the Capital mob or major parts of it. Lincoln issued at least one blanket pardon – covering people by description, not by name. Another problem, with much more likelihood of eventuating, is that maybe Mr. Bannon and the worst of some bad Messrs Miler might also get a presidential sheepskin.
In the first case, I think the following facts would make it likely that the mass pardon or the pardon of any violent rioter would not hold up. The pardon power could not have been meant literally – i.e to cover everything literally within its scope. During his last hours in office President thrill-kills a guy, chosen at random, at rush hour in the 5th Ave subway stop. Steps down; VP pardons in exchange for cash. 98% this Court would find the pardon invalid, max 2 dissents, maybe none. It’s just a way down the continuum of obviousness to President exhorts angry mob march on Congress to “fight.” Mob commits mayhem. President in glee. President pardons mob by description. My guess is that this Pardon is invalid, especially if self-pardon. I think that especially the death of cops push hard in that direction. The Court would want no part of that. Principle aside – and there is some small amount of principle still there on the right – it, too, is afraid of mobs, and Trump might have also marched on it. Finally such a pardon has no innocent explanation and is fairly strong evidence of the President’s original objective. So I think that the Court would begin the process of cutting down a literally unlimited power.
BUT, you never know, and who wants a somewhat uncertain fight, however likely its good outcome, in order to punish those mfs?
Bannon ahd Miller constitute a different kettle of rotten fish. A Trump pardon of Bannon’s alleged financial crimes, has few of the key features above. It is closer to Clinton Mark Rich. (sp?) Not saying it’s the same would have to review. Certainly that was not tainted b sedition, if it was tainted at all.
So to undo a pardon of those two Nazis, in the way I’ve argued above, one would have to find sufficient evidence that they were involved in the planning or execution of the coup attempt. I think I know what you think about the ultimate fact of such involvement. But one would need evidence, and those guys, I’m sure try to be careful. Although I also think that they sometimes figuratively get carried away. Let’s make that literal.
January 16th, 2021 at 9:47AM
Unless Pence really needs a pardon himself, and they get some goon to hold Trump’s pardon of Pence in a rustic escrow until he has Pence’s pardon of Trump in hand, Trump can’t rely on Pence’s promise to pardon him. Trump’s dangerous base is starting to move on from him, trying to be an autonomous dark force. They are beginning to admit that FF was a useful idiot all along and labeling him with the lovely word Cuck. (These guys really think that controlling their women, protecting their property, is one of their highest callings. Killing another. The two together, priceless.) So it’s not clear that Pence supposedly reneging would increase right wing death threats agains him. It is what is already is, and Pence cowers from that. Yep, Pence, King for a Day and despising FF, might well pull away Linus’ football, even after getting a DT pardon himself.
The real moral problem with Pence and Moscow Mitch backing off removal of FF so far, is that FF remotely might pardon the Capital mob or major parts of it. Lincoln issued at least one blanket pardon – covering people by description, not by name. Another problem, with much more likelihood of eventuating, is that maybe Mr. Bannon and the worst of some bad Messrs Miler might also get a presidential sheepskin.
In the first case, I think the following facts would make it likely that the mass pardon or the pardon of any violent rioter would not hold up. The pardon power could not have been meant literally – i.e to cover everything literally within its scope. During his last hours in office President thrill-kills a guy, chosen at random, at rush hour in the 5th Ave subway stop. Steps down; VP pardons in exchange for cash. 98% this Court would find the pardon invalid, max 2 dissents, maybe none. It’s just a way down the continuum of obviousness to President exhorts angry mob march on Congress to “fight.” Mob commits mayhem. President in glee. President pardons mob by description. My guess is that this Pardon is invalid, especially if self-pardon. I think that especially the death of cops push hard in that direction. The Court would want no part of that. Principle aside – and there is some small amount of principle still there on the right – it, too, is afraid of mobs, and Trump might have also marched on it. Finally such a pardon has no innocent explanation and is fairly strong evidence of the President’s original objective. So I think that the Court would begin the process of cutting down a literally unlimited power.
BUT, you never know, and who wants a somewhat uncertain fight, however likely its good outcome, in order to punish those mfs?
Bannon ahd Miller constitute a different kettle of rotten fish. A Trump pardon of Bannon’s alleged financial crimes, has few of the key features above. It is closer to Clinton Mark Rich. (sp?) Not saying it’s the same would have to review. Certainly that was not tainted b sedition, if it was tainted at all.
So to undo a pardon of those two Nazis, in the way I’ve argued above, one would have to find sufficient evidence that they were involved in the planning or execution of the coup attempt. I think I know what you think about the ultimate fact of such involvement. But one would need evidence, and those guys, I’m sure try to be careful. Although I also think that they sometimes figuratively get carried away. Let’s make that literal.